The state of the Japanese RPG is somewhat questionable these days. Many would argue that Japan's top RPGs have simply failed to innovate over the years, and this has provided an opportunity for Western studios like BioWare, Lionhead and Bethesda to pull gamers into their style of gameplay.
In a new in-depth interview with BioWare's Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk, the RPG developer talked about the failings of Japanese developers to bring new ideas to the table.
"I think what happened is they got very complacent for a very long time," Zeschuk told IndustryGamers. "They kept making the same thing, and the same thing, and, in a sense, almost provided an opening for all of us to jump in with our style of games. I know first hand that they’re looking at our games now; they’re kind of looking at our stuff, the Fable stuff, and Fallout, and all that, and going, 'what are these things?' I think they had gotten used to making the same thing over and over, and it was working."
"I think the other thing, too, is that the Japanese market has gotten quite a bit weaker and weaker. It’s just not as strong a market. It used to be a tremendously strong game market, so I think they’re kind of looking at it going, 'man, we’ve got to figure out where else we can sell these,' and I think the traditional, very structured, old-school structure RPG wasn’t selling anymore; so now, I think we’re going to see some changes."
Muzyka added, "...everybody’s got to be always innovating and always trying to look for new opportunities to build on what they’ve done before. Any group, not referring to any particular one, [but] any studio or group, or any country that has certain development aesthetics, you know, from past times, that doesn’t continue to innovate will get left behind."
12 Comments
June 4, 2010
Seems like Zeschuk and me are in agreement over JRPGs.
June 5, 2010
I thought FFXIII sold well? Anyway way different kinds of games they don't compare. One is turn based (FFXIII is turn based the reviewers that said it was not, was LYING, it is active-time battle which is like the old Grandia style). FFXIII is beautiful, and you have NEVER seen anything like it in a western RPG. Now that FFXIII is STARTING to return to their roots the sales are picking up. To me the problem is they are trying to please two kinds of RPG players with ONE game. Not the because they have not innovated. Heck the western style RPG has not innovated, calling a battle system something different does not make it different. The only thing that has evolved (or devolve from my stand point ) on either side is the darkness factor, (western rpg's even darker), and the graphics qualities western, and JRPG's.
The overall reason that FFXIII is not selling even bigger than it is in Japan? There is a fraction of consoles owners compared to PS1, and PS2 (xbox360 and ps3 combined), and Japan is hurting on ALL console sales fronts! Percentage wise FFXIII is doing GREAT! People are missing the big picture on sales. This is the reason that square HAD to come over to xbox360. Because if it (at the time) sold to EVERY console owner it could not equal FFXII in sales!!!
The overall reason that FFXIII is not even a bigger outside of Japan is false reviews! These reviews are so far OFF, that they don't even let people know it is a turn based RPG complete with summon spells (okay not the kind turn based people like ). I mean come on HOW is it possible that you can't tell the difference between turn based, and ACTION? And your reviewing the game? These are not mistakes but out right LIES!
It's like a Vehicle magazine calling a Sports car a station wagon, it is not a mistake but a LIE. Then calling the pretties car the ugliest car, and then wondering out loud what happened to the sales! This car needs to evolve, all the while saying that a muscle car has evolved when it has not changed either it just has more horsepower and prettier paint just like the one you put down as a station wagon.
And the reviews give the impression that the graphics is not up to par to western rpg's. My question is WHICH ONE? Which western RPG looks as good as FFXIII, never the less leaves it in the dust? If you can find one now find me a lot of them, then you can say FFXIII has been left behind on graphics.
June 5, 2010
My comments in NO way directed at David, but the reviewers, and the executives of western RPG companies.
June 5, 2010
Heh, ironically you touch on two subjects I wrote opinion pieces on: JRPGs and reviewing. I'm not going to repeat the breadth of those arguments, but I can theorize why FF13 wasn't received quite as kindly as its predecessors. I think most reviewers knew what the battle system was, but the fact that it looked like an action game in motion but wasn't probably didn't help.
Other things that likely hurt the game in the eyes of Western reviewers was the game's slow start, a cooling attitude towards the Japanese aesthetics that pervades FF13 (which may be at the crux of your “graphics” argument indy), a cultural preference for story elements more relevant to Western culture, and changing perspectives on linear storytelling in RPGs – as much as some people may regard the market for Western and JRPGs to be completely different and separate, they don't occur in a vacuum – they're jockeying for time from gamers who like their games to have more stats and story.
But hey, for what its worth reviews are merely opinions, and if you enjoy a game that others do not, they can't take it away from you.
June 6, 2010
Nice comment David, good insight, it did look like a action RPG. I may have read a different set of reviews and previews than you because I out of about 20 have only read two that said it was turn based. I think Square made it LOOK action base on purpose, and it may have backfired, then again maybe it tricked a few action RPG lovers into buying it. Yeah your right they are jocking for position, I just think that square is going about it in a way that is a lose-lose kinda way. I think they should have lines of JRPG's that are truly JRPG, and lines of WRPG's that are truly western RPG's no half stepping on either. But the investment dollars required are probably blocking that.
June 7, 2010
I can not get into Western RPGs (and I've tried!). Maybe too many of them are made by the same companies and have that "super same-ee" feeling. And the whole "dark, gritty and depressing" thing is really tiresome. Every other game that comes out in the States (RPG and non-RPG) is "dark, gritty and depressing." Plus, the characters are usually super grim and unlikable, and there's a ton of boring dialogue. I have that weird mental disorder where I have to talk to everyone that's talkable to in a video game. In Western RPGs, it's always the same tough guy dialogue. I much rather prefer the light and witty banter my J-Townsfolk supply.
Plus, JRPGs are far more beautiful. I like color! I like bright things! I beautiful fantasy landscapes and wacky monsters like slimes, etc. I also enjoy the goofball characters JRPGs provide. Yeah, Vanillie is mentally brain damaged, but also hilarious.
I can see and appreciate the hard work and talent that's behind the successful Western RPGs (Mass Effetct 1&2, Fallout 3, Dragon Age) and I'm absolutely impressed. However, they too have their shortcomings and cliches. But for some reason, gaming journalists are down on the JRPGs more. I think it's the "hot new thing" to harp on. Most game journalists are sensationalists at heart and need something to exaggerate or blow out of proportion. This is just the new thing. Wow, I'm really yammering--I drank too much coffee.
June 7, 2010
I totally agree with you indysurfn about the graphics, FF13 has great visuals where as Bioware games really aren't to impressive. I love Bioware very much, they are my favorite developer but visual wise in their games there are a ton of low res textures which is disappointing in that aspect but Bioware makes up for that in an amazing story, dialog and freedom of choice. RPG's lately have really focused on choice for the player, do good or evil things that effect the whole story. Bioware has done something amazing with being able to import your character from the previous game and all those choices carry on and change a lot of story elements. The Witcher 2 is doing the very same thing and I believe this element will be more popular in the RPG realm, well at least I hope it does. From what I've heard and read FF13 doesn't have elements of the story where the player can make big choices in what to say and do. FF13 is more of a linear story kind of like watching a very long movie which almost all action/RPG's lack in those story elements, games like God of War, Prototype, Darksiders, Dante's Infernal and many more. Their RPG elements is just being able to customize your characters stats, powers/abilities. I agree with Bioware saying FF13 lacks those story elements and I think JRPG games should consider being more innovated with story and choices which would appeal to a larger western audience and give the JRPG players something refreshing. Think a lot of the negativity for FF13 is that the first 16 hours or so of the game kinda sucks but its suppose to get a lot better after that, 14-16 hours is quite a long time lol. I have the game somewhere buried under a stack of DVD's and I do plan on trying it someday but never been a fan of JRPG's in the past even tho I absolutely love RPG's, its my favorite genre but for me it has to be all audio dialog to be truly immersive which JRPG's has lacked very much in the past, pretty sure FF13 is all audio.
June 7, 2010
Demon's Souls and White Knight Chronicles, despite any qualms, were both praised for innovating online multplayer in RPG's, an area Bioware and Bethesda have not dared to go yet.
Valkyria Chronicles was also praised for reinventing the SRPG sub-genre.
Ironically, WRPG's actually have not innovated much besides graphics. Quite the opposite - they've actually been diluted to appeal to wider audiences. EscapistMagazine.com ran several hilarious sketches about how Mass Effect 2 gutted nearly all of its RPG elements to be more like a shooter. Longtime fans of the Fallout series complained that Fallout 3 looked too much like an action game.
Not sure what these two are talking about...
June 8, 2010
@rmx687
Bioware did Neverwinter Nights, which had online multiplayer modes.
Your comment about a lack of innovation outside of graphics is a head-scratcher. The inclusion of morality systems, complex character customization, branching and dynamic storylines, and the combat improvements that Western RPGs made to break the genre out of the menu-driven snore fest that previous JRPGs were are all massive innovations.
WRPGs appealling to larger audiences isn't necessarily a result of the WRPG being a "dilluted" experience, they appeal to larger audiences because they are deeper, more dynamic, better games than their counterparts from the East.
June 9, 2010
@Lohman - I'm confused. I thought we were talking about innovations over the last few years, as is the main topic in the article.
1. Neverwinter Nights was, what, more than 10 years ago?
2. Morality Systems, "complex" character customization, branching storylines, etc. are not recent innovations.
3. If they appeal to larger audiences because of "deeper, more dynamic, better" games, why have they only reversed the polarity of popularity in the last 3-4 years?
I find it extremely troubling that you suggest deep experiences appeal to larger audiences. This is contradicted on a consistent monthly basis by the NPD reports alone.
June 9, 2010
I agree with Greg... Mass Effect improved their action, there are less weapon skills because of the different classes you play, think there's 6 which adds variety so each class has those skills already in place. Mass Effect 2 improved and took out very little, I've played it 4x and I don't get what was gutted, have you played it? There are less weapons and armor in the 2nd game but they all get upgrades, I would have liked to see more weapons, but still there's like 25 different weapons. Mass Effect 3 will have multiplayer which I could care less about, its all about the single-player story for me. There are not a whole lot of new innovations but its been improving on what already works, the best innovation tho is being able to import your character from the previous game and all those choices carry over and change a lot of story elements which is a huge deal. ME2 isn't a perfect game, has 2 flaws, 1 you need to scan planets for resources to upgrade your stuff which can be bypassed by editing a .ini file. Second is that they took out random planet exploration and instead those planets will jump you to a mission. Exploration in the first game was horrible due to the vehicle, a game that allows you to travel through the galaxy but unable to land and wonder around on a random planet kinda sucks. But, they released a DLC with a new vehicle that works beautifully which means exploration will be back in ME3. Has JRPG's done anything different since super nintendo? Oh and escapistmagazine.com gave Mass Effect 2 a 5/5 and there are no such sketches other then 1 funny video about ME2 that talks about the good and the bad which will be all improved in ME3.
June 10, 2010
@Malice - "Have JRPG's done anything different since super nintendo?"
It seems you do not know much about video games, history or in general, so I won't waste much time but my previous post listed 3 contributions JRPG's have made in the last 2 years alone, while Final Fantasy has twice ushered in and set the bar for 2 generations of video games (PS1 and PS2).
Also
1. Importing character data from a past game is not an innovation, hell, they even had it in Sonic & Knuckles on the Genesis.
2. EscapistMagazine.com's ENN sketch ran a segment "Where have our RPG elements gone?" suggesting that they've been kidnapped by terrorists and showed a taped execution of FFVIII's Junction System. The episode coincided with the release of Mass Effect 2, which was brought up to introduce the segment.
Again, this article's quote and topic is Bioware's claim that WRPG's have been successful because they've continuously innovated over the last few years and JRPG's have stagnated in both quality and market performance. Which is counter-intuitive to say the least. Just at X10 Peter Molyneaux was talking about making Fable 3 an action game.