IndustryGamers - Informing the Games Industry

Interview: BioWare Talks Dragon Age, Narrative and Crossing the Uncanny Valley

Posted June 17, 2009 by James Brightman

IG:  In a sense, you were able to test out the Nintendo audience already with your Sonic RPG title. Are you pleased with the reception you got? 

Zeschuk:  We're really happy with what we made. The main thing is that it was the first time on the [DS] platform and the team did an awesome job. It was a lot of fun to develop. Watching everyone in the office, it was amazing to see how fast stuff changed and how quickly we were able to do it. Typically our projects are very big and take a lot of time. Even for the platform, Sonic was kind of a big game, but on the BioWare scale it was small and fast.  

IG:  So what do you feel is the next step needed to advance storytelling in games? 

Zeschuk:  I wish we knew. [laughs]  It's a continuous evolution. It's hard to describe but I feel like we're always looking at new stuff. Some of it is just the quality of the acting, and how much non-verbal stuff you can do [with animation].Secondarily, we talk about narrative living in different spaces, not necessarily just the story in the game, but also the action – what's the story of the battle you just had? So I think [storytelling] is expanding and with Dragon Age: Origins we're trying to pull that personal experience you have and surface it onto the community sites so people can share each other's journeys – it's like the Facebook of role-playing. ... It's about getting people connected. That's one of the exciting things about where we are right now; more and more we're living in this highly connected world, so every game you make has to consider that. That's the big thing, that concept of narrative among different people and how they share it. 

Muzyka:  The social narrative outside of gaming is exciting because it affords you having a longer term connection with your fans, whether that be sharing what they're doing with one another, multiplayer, downloadable content that you can sell to them, or getting them engaged in being co-creators of the experience with toolsets.

IG:  One thing that might hold some gamers back from connecting emotionally with characters in a game is the uncanny valley, which designers continue to talk about trying to overcome. What are your thoughts?

Zeschuk:  Our thoughts are that it's challenging to cross it. [laughs] 

Muzyka:  And it's important to cross it. It's a multifactorial solution, so it's not just one thing you have to do. You have to do all things at all times – animation, production, AI, integration with the world...

Zeschuk:  They don't just have to talk sensibly but have to act sensibly, as you get this higher and higher level of fidelity [in games].  It really ups the ante. You can't just have guys standing there [like mannequins]. 

Muzyka:  The more complex the game, and the more complex the characters are, then the more complex the solution needs to be. With a game like Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2 surpassing that uncanny valley becomes more challenging because of all the things you get to do in the game – RPGs are very diverse in the experience... 

IG:  I've heard some in the industry say that designers will never be able to truly cross that uncanny valley. Do you think it's something you can cross?

Zeschuk:  I think we have at times. There are moments in Mass Effect and Dragon Age where it looks so incredibly lifelike that it's almost spooky. It's not every single scene, but there are points where it's starting to happen, so it's really about finding out what happened in those instances and reproducing that. 

Muzyka:  One of the neat things we're doing [in Dragon Age] is just the interactions with characters as you walk around and there are these optional moments depending on who you have with you [in your party]. There are times where you're walking around and the characters are commenting on the environment or talking amongst themselves... talking about their interests, likes, desires, and that just gives them so much depth and makes them more realistic and credible characters. You're just listening to it and enjoying it – they're not just responding to your actions or the big stuff in the world but they're doing the small things. That's the way people relate to one another as well. 

IG:  Ray and Greg, thanks.  

 

James Brightman has been covering the games industry since 2003 and has been an avid gamer ever since the days of Atari and Intellivision. He was previously the EIC of GameDaily Biz.