Interview: BioWare Talks Dragon Age, Narrative and Crossing the Uncanny Valley

IndustryGamers: So let's talk about your new IP, Dragon Age. This is in some ways a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate? 

Ray Muzyka: You could look at it that way and maybe taken to the next level with this next generation. If you think about the feature set we had in Baldur's Gate II and imagine that married with the cinematic scope and characterization and the way the emotional engagement works with the characters and worlds in Mass Effect... put those together and it's kind of what you get in Dragon Age. But we're defining a new kind of fantasy is how we're looking at it too – dark heroic fantasy. It's not the high fantasy of Tolkien or the low, dark stuff either. It's more in the middle where you're a hero still but you're a dark hero in a dark world where choices have consequences, and it's mature and gritty and realistic. So it's something pretty differentiated from the other fantasy you've seen to date, we think, and we're pretty excited about it.  

The famous doctor duo

IG: Yeah, I read about how you guys deliberately changed the perception around elves, so instead of being this lofty race, they'd been enslaved by humans and there's a real hatred there between the races. 

Greg Zeschuk: Right, and you feel that. What's interesting about that is from the Origins story – when you first start the game you play as an elf – and you discover first-hand how you're getting disrespected... You feel that and you're launched right into the world after that experience and through the rest of the game you then have that perspective of what it's like to be an elf. But it's very customized for everyone – you choose which one of the Origins stories you want to take and all have interesting challenges, and then throughout the rest of the game you're always seeing through those eyes. The concept of role-playing is further strengthened by that. 

IG: Aside from Tolkien, who's of course inspired everyone in this genre, what were some of the primary inspirations for you on this project? 

Muzyka: Some of the work of George R.R. Martin is probably on the other end of the spectrum; it's dark and very mature. A character dies every few pages and it feels like a world where it's very different from the high fantasy, and yet it's still a fantasy world. Dragon Age is somewhere right in the middle – there are heroes, you are  saving the world and you still have a legendary quest to complete, but it's not an easy place. It's a pretty dark unpleasant place in some ways, but to explore it still feels heroic and like you're on a grand adventure. And yet, there are mature consequences to your actions. 

IG: Right, whether with Mass Effect or Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, you guys have been designing games that show consequences for some time, and there have been more and more games that incorporate this like Fable, BioShock and others. Do you feel that game designers perhaps have a moral responsibility to create games that do show the consequences of your actions? 

Zeschuk: It's interesting that you mention that. I'm not sure how much you follow the ratings board in Germany and the challenges there – because they are very strict on violence in video games – but one of the things in Germany is if you actually show a consequence for a bad behavior it's more acceptable for consumption because it does have that underlying message for players. I think it depends on what you're building though. If you're creating a total bubble gum game where you're blowing things up like in Serious Sam, then there are no consequences, but I think when we're trying to create a more engaging experience where you want to play a role and have some kind of realistic relationships, both with the characters and the world, then [consequence] is a good thing to have because it rounds out the experience.  ... It's exciting from a designer's perspective because we can always try new things. In Dragon Age for example we have this approval system with your party members where they each individually comment on and evaluate what you're doing. Effectively, they're always watching you and either happy or unhappy with your actions. On the happy side, it can lead to romances or they'll share tricks or techniques or tell you where treasure is; and on the unhappy side they can even attack you or leave your group. So it's an interesting way to do it – I think the designers like to have that challenge of figuring out how to measure these things. 

Muzyka: For us, the engagement of the emotional part of the experience may not be feasible without having consequences for the choices you make, because those lead to an emotional engagement or reaction. That's a core part of our vision and our game design as a studio. Not all developers embrace that, but we think it leads to a more powerful experience with our audience. 

IG: Tying into that, there's been that talk for a while about “Can a video game make you cry?” 

Zeschuk: Sometimes they make us cry...  [laughs] 

IG: But do you think they've gotten to that point now where they are emotionally engaging enough to affect players in that way? 

Muzyka: I think so.  The industry continues to mature and it's more in the middle of the maturity phase now. I see games as an art form and they're starting to evolve to that [emotional level]. Like movies, literature or television there's a whole spectrum of different kinds of games, and some of them are trying to do that and some aren't – some are just more action-oriented. But even those can still have a powerful story and moving characters and an emotionally powerful narrative that make you feel like you're immersed in a world you don't want to leave. That's what we're striving for.